Introduction: The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People
In this introduction to our newest series, Traci and Rob will give their perspectives and key takeaways from the overview to Stephen Covey’s book The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Learn how to be curious, define habits, and understand character ethics versus personality ethics.
Check out the other episodes in the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People series:
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Welcome to the Overly Human Podcast, where we discuss all things human in the workplace. Because it's not just business—it's personal too.
Rob:
Welcome back, Traci.
Traci:
Yeah! I'm so excited. I've missed you.
Rob:
Yeah. I've missed you, too. I'm excited we're back after a short summer break.
Traci:
Yeah.
Rob:
We've both been working on some cool things that I think we'll have some announcements about sometime soon—but that's for a later day.
But we're back!
Traci:
We're back. We're back, after this hot, crazy summer. Now we're diving back in. I'm super excited. And we have so many fun things on the horizon for Overly Human.
Rob:
Yeah, lots of Overly Human stuff. So I think we're ready to dive into our next series, right?
Traci:
Yeah. We are going to be talking about one of my most favorite books, which I think probably the vast majority of our audience has heard of this book, but not quite sure if they've read it. But they probably would recognize the material if they picked it up and read it, because it has influenced so many people that are our contemporaries today, and who have written books or spoken, like Jim Collins or Warren Bennett or Dayna Pink or Seth Godin. All of those people have been widely influenced by Stephen Covey's Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.
So that's our big Overly Human announcement for today, is we're going to dive into this book.
Rob:
Yeah. And this is going to be a lot of fun because I originally read this years and years ago, and I picked it back up this summer, to refresh all those things. And I think today, we're just going to do an overview, because as I picked it up and looked at the book again, I was like, "Oh. There's about 80 pages of material before we even get to the first habit."
Traci:
Yeah. Stephen Covey... This book was written in 1989. So let's see, how old were we then? Young. It was voted the number one most influential business book of the 20th century. And Stephen Covey was just an amazing person. He since his passed, but he's MBA from Harvard, doctorate from Brigham Young, a professor, a leadership guru. And one of the things that made this book so revolutionary, and one of the reasons I like it so much, is in the beginning of the book, he bakes in a lot of psychology.
He makes us think about how we're thinking, and how our paradigms and lenses that we look through, and our belief systems affect how we view the world we live in, how we see the world around us. We all have our own sort of thought patterns that shaped that. And those thought patterns, those ways that we view the world, govern how we behave. And I think just reading the first part of this book, again, after so many years like you, it reminded me why I loved it so much, because as you know, I love the intersection of psychology and leadership and business, and the human nature of this book is so right up our alley. How he looks at things, and how we look at leadership. Oh, it's just so us. So it's just the perfect book for us to talk about.
Rob:
Yeah. It really is. And I think you put a pretty good point on it, but it's that how we show up, and how our perceptions affect how we interpret those situations, and how we make decisions, and how much that is the compass for how we do things. It is the perfect description of why we started this podcast, Overly Human, is because of the humans involved, and what we bring, and how we show up to things.
And all the habits that he talks about, really, they’re practices to set intentionality. And I think that's one of my favorite things about this book, rereading it, was like, "Oh. These are things that are inside my control, and what I can do about them, and how important it is to focus on those things."
Traci:
Yeah. And I think what's interesting too, is that he tells us at the beginning of the book, before we can even get into thinking about habits and changing our behavior, is that we have to first change our perspective and understand that. Recognize what our view of the world is, and then challenge it. Which I think is, it's fascinating, because this was written back in the late eighties, but so applicable to today, if not even more applicable to today, because are we really challenging the way we look at the world? And are we saying, "Is this...?"…
We assume that the way we see things is the way that things are, but maybe we need to challenge the accuracy of how we're viewing the world. And if everybody did that today; if everybody just took a breath, stopped, and said, "Wait. The way I'm looking at these things, these hot topics, or even just my team, or... But is that accurate? Is that true reality? Or is that just the reality I want it to be?" And how revolutionary is that thought? And Stephen Covey wrote about that.
And I think that man, even if, as leaders, every day, when we started our workday, we took a moment to just reset our perspective. And we just asked ourselves, "Am I looking at this accurately? Is the way that I view things a true reality?" And he calls them mental maps. So he says the way things are, is our reality. And the way things should be, are our values. And those are good things, right? Having a view of the world and having values, but are they right? Are we challenging ourselves? Are we challenging each other? Holding each other accountable to the accuracy of our views?
Rob:
Yeah. And I think it's this whole thing of like I fundamentally believe that I have to always allow for the possibility that I'm completely wrong about things that I'm sure I've learned. And that perspective of being continuously curious, and being okay with being wrong, right?
And I think that one of the things that I've heard recently, that I've really latched onto, that I really like is this whole idea of getting it right, is better than being right. And living in that space, where there is other perspectives. We come preloaded with our life experience and our biases and all of that stuff, that we have to constantly check and explore and understand, because we may have over-learned lessons with small sample sizes, or not taking the right lessons at the wrong time, and all those other pieces that go into that. Right? How do we just be in this place where we sit and listen, and are curious still about the world around us.
Traci:
Yeah. And we've talked about it before, is that when we're curious, the one lever that goes up in our emotional intelligence is empathy. So when we ask more questions, when we're more curious about why people are acting the way they're acting, or believe the way they believe it gives us an opportunity to walk in their shoes, which raises our empathy, which deepens our connection as humans: which is our goal. We need to have that connection.
And he tells one story when he's talking about mental maps. I don't know if you remember about him on the subway in New York City. And a dad with some kids come onto the subway, and they're misbehaving, and acting really crazy. And at first he sort of like, kind of dismisses it, and then it really bothers him. And he turns to the dad and says, "You know, you should get those kids under control. They're really disturbing the passengers on the train." And the dad kind of snaps out of it, and says, “Yeah, yeah, you're right. I probably should. Their mom just died. And we're coming from the hospital, and I'm not quite sure how to deal with things." And of course, he just is wrecked by that news.
And it's just a great example of we don't know, right? We don't know what people's stories are until we ask, but we are awful quick to judge. We're awful quick to correct, pass judgment, sit in our own rightness about the situation. And so that was just for him, a very simple example of mental maps: how we view the world, and how we see things, and we believe them to be.
And so to your point, that curiosity, just asking a question, rather than passing judgment, is the way to go, to get our perspectives and our mental maps corrected, and know that we're entering into this with the right frame of mind.
Rob:
Yeah, totally. It's the easy default, right, to be in a judging place, to think we understand. Right? And I'm reminded of a quote that I heard recently, and I'm full of quotes, because I've been collecting all this stuff I'm working on, some new stuff, is, "In order to empathize with someone's experience, you must be willing to believe them as they see it, and not how you imagine their experience to be." Thanks, Brene Brown; always a source of wisdom. But that was one of those things that I saw, and I'm like, "Yes, yes. That's it." Right? We have to be able to listen in a curious way, to believe people what they say, and how they experience the world. And start with that. Start with that question, right?
Traci:
Yeah.
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Traci:
So he calls it the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. So how does he define habits?
Rob:
Yeah. So the way that he defines habits, I actually really liked; and he defines habits as, “the intersection of knowledge, skill, and desire.” Which—like I said—it was like, "Oh. I really, really like that definition, because I have to know what I need to do, have a skill which is earned and something that I've practiced, and then also the desire to continue it up, the work." Right?
And that was a really good, intentional definition of it's not good enough just to know something, or just to practice something. You also have to chase after it. The pursuit of these things is one of the big ideas that kind of runs through this book, of behaving in such a way, of being effective, is not something that will just come naturally. You have to want it as well.
Traci:
Yeah. And the quote from Aristotle, "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act, but a habit.” And I've always loved that; that whole, we need to strive for excellence. And so his definition of habits is really how you just described it. It's that pursuit of excellence. So we have to know why we're doing something, know how to do it, have that motivation and desire to get there. So this is a pursuit of excellence. He calls it highly effective. If we want to have an impact, these are the lessons and the habits that we need to commit ourselves to.
Rob:
Yeah. Knowing what to do, practice doing it, wanting to do it.
Traci:
Exactly. Which takes, like we said before, kind of that rededication every day, when we're waking up as leaders, to say, "All right. We're going to double down today, and we're going to be effective. We're going to be intentional. We're going to commit to this."
But he does highlight—which I found fascinating—something that can trip us up. And he talks about the kind of character ethic versus personality ethic. And he talks about the shift in our culture as Americans, that, back in probably our grandparents' day, success was measured by your character. Right? So it was based on your integrity and your humility, your courage, your justice, your patience, your industry, and the golden rule: do onto others.
And he said there was a shift, and he kind of... He places it on sort of the self-help movement, where, and I think of it more as how our was shifting towards more of individualism. And in that, all of a sudden, there was a shift to personality ethic, which is your success is based on your behavior, your power, your attitude, your charisma, your PR; and that still exists today.
And it's funny he's bringing this up in 1989, but it's even more ingrained in our society today, that we've sort of lost somehow; it seems very far off in the distance to be basing success on somebody's character. It's more basing it on their charisma, and how that has actually caused us as leaders to sort of lose our compass, or at least the correct compass. Because when you base your success on the personality ethic, things are more likely to get corrupted and manipulated, because you're vying for power. You're vying for attention. You're vying to feel right. You're vying for PR, for fame. And all in those adjectives, there's a lot of room there for manipulation and rat race-type attitudes, and corruption to happen, versus character ethics when we're all holding each other accountable for our integrity, and our humility and our patience as we lead.
How did that resonate with you?
Rob:
Oh, good grief. That whole thing is so interesting because the whole idea that we've lost our way, and it's become more that individualistic, that zero-sum game, that win-at-all-costs kind of idea. You see it everywhere, right? And you see this as the antithesis of good collaboration, and what team play and trust—all these things we've talked about for the last, you and I, a year on this podcast.
We have to be so careful to not fall in love, because I think the thing we're talking about lends itself to that wanting to be right and wanting your rightness and your identity gets tied up into that. And as soon as humans make that jump, and start finding their identity in the things that they believe to be true about themselves, and what they want to see in others, in that second ethic is really dangerous, because you then have to fight to continue to be there, instead of having that openness and that humility to be open to being wrong. And man, there are so many things, bad things that happen in companies and leadership, even in the world, when we get tied into making sure that we're right.
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Traci:
Yeah. And I talk about this in coaching so much with the leaders I talk to, I write about it often is that pursuit of that type of success leaves you empty. It really does. It's a never-ending game that nobody wins. Whereas the pursuit of leadership based on character ethic, what it does, is it makes you more of that servant leader. You're more serving the mission, serving the people, and that is so rewarding. It's so fulfilling. It's so... I find that my clients who lead in that way, find so much more joy in their work. So there's so much payback or residual fulfillment from that pursuit.
But it's scary for people. It's scary to let go of the idea of power. It's scary to let go of you constantly feeling like you're in a competition, and you have to win. And that's very hard for us, but I feel like leaders today are trying desperately to pull that pendulum back in the other direction. And it's swung way too far in personality ethic. We're feeling the effects of that in our society today. Everything's very heated. The temperature is super high, and I think people are desperate to try to figure out how can we get back, get reconnected to each other as humans, become a true community again. And I think this is one of the keys right here, what we're talking about.
Rob:
You're absolutely right. I think it's a matter of how do we put— instead of people that were on that pedestal—the ideas, the missions, the beliefs, the core values we have together, that we're in common pursuit of. Right? And that's the piece that I think is missing, and what people are hungry for, is this idea that, no, we're all striving and serving to, towards these goals, these ideals, these who we want to be, and what we want to see in the world, and how important that is. It's the whole thing of, if you want a bunch of sailors, you don't talk about the rough seas, and how hardships and all this stuff, you talk about freedom, and you talk about the places you will see. Right? You want to vision cast for them, where we're going; and the work becomes second nature.
Traci:
Yeah. And you want to form those teams based on community, rather than based on being a tribe centered around specific beliefs. And I think we've become more of a tribal society than we have a community of people who deeply care about each other.
And he hints a little bit about that in the book when he talks about going from dependence to independence to interdependence. That the ultimate goal is to become interdependent on each other; trusting relationships, healthy emotional bonds with each other. And I think that is the ultimate goal. That is the ultimate reward, is to have these healthy, cohesive teams that we're leading, that are based on solid principles and values, so that we are waking up each morning wanting to lift each other up, and caring about each other's success as much, if not more, than our own, realizing that when we give in to that idea, that we end up being successful by default.
And having the courage and the bravery to enter into leadership with that mindset; I think I just wish people would kind of take that leap of faith and trust that, yeah, it feels scary in the beginning, because it's counterintuitive to the way we grew up, and the sort of Gordon Gekko kind of way of doing business. But if we just kind of let go of that mentality, and shift to what you and I are talking about, that we know even from personal experience, how rewarding work can feel.
Rob:
Yeah, well, it's the output of our work in life is the impact we have on others, and then the reciprocal impact they have on other people, right? That's this… and they kind of go into this in the book; but the way that I look at that sphere of control, or sphere of influence, and sphere of control is, what can I impact here and then let other people in their spheres impact others. And it becomes this ripple effect, right? We can be the change we want to see in the world by living according to the character we want to have lived by, and good things happen, right?
And I think that's like when we talk about our business, and wanting to genuinely win at business, but also have that overlap with taking really good care of our people. And I want people to have both. And I think that those two places, that intersection point, speaks perfectly to this mindset of what do we do and have our attitude steer us in a direction that allows us to have positive impacts on the world.
Traci:
Yeah. This is going to be fun. This is going to be great.
Rob:
This is going to be fun.
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Rob:
Yeah. So let's run through the seven habits real quick. This is the intro episode to this, so I'll do the first one.
So the first habit is proactivity, right? Be proactive.
Traci:
Yep.
Rob:
The second habit is beginning with the end in mind. Knowing where you want to go.
Habit three is put first things first, is prioritize, right? Making sure that you start with what has to become, before the next thing.
And those are all the inside victories, right? That's how he kind of defines them.
Habit four is think win-win, is how do we have mutually edifying relationships? Not everything, most things aren't a zero-sum game, and that's a good thing.
Habit five seek first to understand, and then to be understood, which I love this one. How do I listen first, and then speak once I... or ask to clarify, and then to then to be heard.
Habit six is synergize, which is bring those pieces together.
And then habit seven to sharpen the saw. Is now that I've got all of those other pieces in place, how do I continue to refine that process, that feedback loop that we're constantly talking about. Right?
Traci:
Yeah. And we're going to jump into each one per episode, and just kind of go over what Stephen Covey's philosophy is about that habit. But then, also kind of interweave our own personal experience with that, and what we've seen, and the teams we've worked with and have led, as well as client interaction, and have just some good conversation.
And hopefully, all of our listeners can walk away with a really good, solid understanding of these habits, and how they can affect not just leadership, but their daily life, and all the domains that they interact in, in their lives.
Rob:
Yeah.
Traci:
Awesome.
Rob:
So, Traci, what are the takeaways for today?
Traci:
I'd say the application that I'm thinking about when I think about this episode, and what we've talked about; kind of the one question I ask a lot of my clients, which is, "How do you define success?"
So if you want to apply what you've heard today, I would take out a piece of paper, and write down how you define success. What is it based on? And when you think about that, and you look at what you write on the paper, do you see things that wrap more around character ethic or more around personality ethic? Give yourself a little self-assessment today, and see if you need to kind of rejigger your perspective on that before you kind of go into listening to these habits in the upcoming weeks.
Rob:
I like that.
I think my big takeaway is something else that I've been thinking about lately, is this idea of how little things we do can add up to big things, right? And the quote that I come back to—and I'm full of quotes apparently today—is this idea that "Humans often overestimate what can be accomplished in a day, but underestimate what they can do in a year."
And so, how do we add up, and make these small, evolutionary changes as we go through our life, our business, or whatever, that will then add up, and the cumulative effect will be revolutionary? Right? So look for those small habits that we can focus on, those small... the intersection of knowledge, skill, and desire, that we can then make big changes by adding up all the small things that we're doing.
Traci:
Good. Awesome.
Rob:
Thanks, Traci.
Traci:
Thank you.
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