Battling the Silent Killer: Quiet Quitting
The increasingly popular term ‘Quiet Quitting’ has gained traction on social media platforms like TikTok, but it also has real ramifications for the workplace. In this episode, Traci and Rob explore what quiet quitting is and how you as either an employer or employee can go back to being engaged in the workplace.
This episode is brought to you by the Bureau of Digital. Learn more at bureauofdigital.com.
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Traci:
So quiet quitting has kind of exploded onto the scene in our universe. And as business leaders and owners, I know it's something that we're all wrestling with. And so Rob and I decided we would do a little research and figure out how did this whole thing begin?
And as all things began, according to my teenagers, it began on TikTok with a video uploaded by a 20-something engineer named Zaid Kahn. And with the sound of piano music playing in the background and shots of New York City flashing across the screen, he narrates a 17-second video that basically burst quiet quitting onto the screen, or I should say the scene.
I recently learned, "about this term called quiet quitting. When you're not outright quitting your job, but you're quitting the idea of going above and beyond," Kahn says, "You're still performing your duties, but you're no longer subscribing to the hustle culture mentality that work has to be your life. The reality is it's not. And your worth as a person is not defined by your labor."
There is a lot in there, Rob, and I am super excited. We're going to unpack that today.
Rob:
Yeah, I am too. This is a topic that's come up a lot and I'm glad we're going to unpack it. I do think it's worth just mentioning that I'm not sure that we've ever sounded older than reading a description of a TikTok video in an only audio medium.
Traci:
Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yes. And my teenagers are just constantly reading things and showing me things and talking about TikTok. And you know what? It's real. Yeah. And I think that we've always been able to kind of put it in its own little box, but now there is something that's kind of burst onto our work world that came through TikTok and that's interesting.
Now, we should note that quiet quitting was not that term, was not originated by this young man, but it was from an article and obviously he read that article and sort of brought it into the broader universe.
So I'm excited to talk about why this is happening and is it real or is this just a trend or something that one person was talking about or one author of an article highlighted? And are we feeling it as leaders, you and I, and are we seeing it out there? And then how do we navigate it?
So I think it's going to be something fun to dissect and hopefully helpful to those listening today.
Rob:
Yeah, I hope so too.
Announcer:
Welcome to the Overly Human Podcast where we discuss all things human in the workplace. Because it's not just business—it's personal, too.
Rob:
The first question you ask, is it real? And I think that we have to say yes, something that we've been hearing about for nine months or so and it keeps coming up, and those kind of things go away quicker if they're not real. Yeah, I think it's very real.
Traci:
Yeah, I think it's real, too. Research shows that it's real. There has been a lot of research about productivity and the level of productivity which has gone down. And initially, I think people thought productivity was going down because of lack of workers, and that the labor force is strained. But what research is showing is that it's not actually the number of people in the workforce, it's that the workers are working less or they're less productive.
Gallup also did a big research study, as you can imagine. They jumped right on this and wanted to see what it was all about. And their research showed that half the workforce is disengaged, not engaged in their work. And they equate not being engaged to quiet quitting. And they also showed interestingly, and I know that you and I are really curious about the generational divides here, but they did show in their research that it's higher amongst Gen Z and Millennials.
Rob:
Yeah. Well, that would make sense. And it's interesting that the detached disengagement with quiet quitting or the one-for-one. Is that kind of what you were reading about, talking about those being the same thing?
Traci:
Well, according to them, that's how they defined it.
Rob:
Okay.
Traci:
Now, it's interesting because there's a lot in there about defining quiet quitting, and I think they were putting it against this idea of not going above and beyond, sort of coasting, back in my day, being the old person that I am, it was phoning it in. So in some sense, it makes you wonder has this concept of leaning out of work or phoning it in or just showing up more physically than mentally, has that always been around? And of course, human nature, it has been always been around. Is it just heightened today or are we just more aware of it because of social media and the power of getting these ideas out there?
I think according to research with Gallup, I do think it is heightened today. And they did toss out some reasons why it might be happening or what might be heightened. But yes, to answer your question, they did just tie it to not being engaged.
Rob:
Yeah, and that's interesting. We both took our time and went through some of the different research separately. And the way that I've always thought about quiet quitting was the intentional choice of separating out and disengagement. And I think that there is a whole bunch of unintentional disengagement that can happen too. And I think maybe for me, there's always been a kind of divide between me making that choice or an individual making that choice to not showing up intentionally disengaging to the disengagement that can happen as part of any kind of one person's life.
Traci:
Yeah. And I think one of the big debates that's been going on about quiet quitting is is quiet quitting just work-life balance? Is this just something somewhere in between being a workaholic and coasting? Is that where quiet quitting lies? And I'm open to that argument. I just find that I think it leans more towards, for lack of a better way of saying it, more of a passive-aggressive approach to saying, "I'm not going to be all in," or, "I'm going to save part of myself for my own life and not really say that work is everything and I have to lean into work or go above and beyond or exceed anybody's expectations. I'm going to work to the level that I choose as a employee to say equals my pay."
That's subjective in some sense. I mean, we all have job descriptions—hopefully, we all have job descriptions. But I do think there is this line in the debate where people are saying, "Okay, is it really about passively aggressively kind of disengaging yourself?" Or is it just saying, "Hey, I'm going to have boundaries. I'm going to decide that I'm going to end work at five o'clock and I'm not going to do any work after that," which I think is great. I think work-life balance is fabulous and having boundaries is fabulous. I think the big unanswered question is, is that what this really is or is it more than that?
Rob:
Yeah, I think it's fundamentally different at least in the way that I look at the world. I believe that work-life balance is super important. And you and I have talked about this a lot in the past that work-life balance can be a little bit of a misnomer because for me it's always made the assumption that I have two buckets of energy to pull from. And we both know, and we've talked about before, that you have one bucket of attention, focus, energy to pull from and where you put those has to be divided between things that happen at work and things that happen elsewhere, home, family, all those fun things. And I believe that the balancing of that and putting your energies in those different places is really, really important.
And I also kind of believe that there's seasons for things. And somebody's attention to their work life or their career or focus on that is going to waiver during their lifetime.
I noticed in my own life that around the times when we had, especially had kids that were born, had little ones in the house, it took a lot more energy to be at home and to be present. And especially around the time when my daughter was born who decided not to sleep for six months, I don't know that I was a great employee then. I just wasn't really focused. I wasn't sleeping, all of those things. And I think that's appropriate to not have all in all the time because there are seasons for things.
Traci:
There are, but I wouldn't say that you consciously made a decision to quietly quit during that time.
Rob:
No.
Traci:
I think that your capacity level wavered, right?
Rob:
Exactly, yes.
Traci:
Right.
Rob:
Yes.
Traci:
Yeah. And you're right, that does happen in certain times of our life.
I mean, I think it's interesting. I was in a very demanding, high-powered job when I had my children. And as a woman—and this could be a whole other podcast episode—didn't feel like I had that luxury. So the second I got back from maternity leave, despite the fact I'm still breastfeeding and waking up at all hours of the night, I felt I had to double down on my productivity. I had to prove that I was back full force.
So it's interesting, and I do look at this quiet quitting in some of the articles that I read. It was interesting. NPR actually did a survey where they started asking their different listeners what their impressions were of quiet quitting. And they saw this divide between socio and economic groups, genders, and people of color where there wasn't as much of an entitlement—let's just say—that you could quiet quit. Like the luxury wasn't there for a lot of people that are in certain types of jobs. And so that also adds another layer to this. Does this have something to do with feeling a bit entitled?
Now, of course in the fields that we're in, that job security is a little stronger now because the risk is lower to quiet quit than it has been in the past. If jobs were really hard to come by, people would be leaning into it.
So it's interesting because even in the TikTok, some of the things he was saying went above the definition of quiet quitting according to the article, which was just the idea of going above and beyond. He was saying we no longer want to subscribe to the hustle culture mentality, and that your worth as a person isn't defined by your labor, which I totally agree with. Nobody's worth should be defined by anything. We're worthy in and of ourselves. There's nothing around us that's going to define that or increase our worth or value. You are worthy whether you work or you don't work, no matter a blue-collar worker, white-collar, or whatever kind of definition you want to give to the workforce, or whatever buckets you want to put people in does not define your worth.
Now, hustle culture mentality is also very different when we think about where that came from and that definition. But when you look at work across all of time and across all different generations, different generations view work differently. So my grandparents who came through the Spanish Flu and World War I and the Great Depression, work was just so valued and so honored. And so you were so grateful that you did go above and beyond because that feeling of gratitude was there.
Gen X—my generation mentality—I came up through high school and entered the workforce in the early nineties when it was all about Michael Douglas and Wall Street where greed is good and we're going to go out there and maybe that whole pursuit of money became even more rampant. But there was also this work ethic mentality that came from my parent's generation, the Baby Boomer generation where you worked until straight on, no complaints until you were 62, got that gold watch, and retired.
So there's all these playing into this. There's all these different views of what work is like. And there's a lot of articles and things written about how Gen Z and Millennials have not gone through something where they've seen the benefits of the economy that they're living in now and haven't experienced the stress upon that. So does that shape the way that they look at work? What do you think?
Rob:
I think it totally does. The times when the Millennials, most of the Millennials, most of the Gen Z has entered the workforce, has been times of stress, of times of high costs, of times where inflation has been going crazy.
A big part of this, I think right now why quiet quitting is a thing, is partially in response to what we've been through the last couple years. The collective trauma of going through a global pandemic on top of now one of the hottest job markets we've ever experienced in this country, and the lowest unemployment rate is just driving this. There is a group, there's an empowerment here, an entitlement to I have choices and go ahead. I can do what I want. You can fire me, and I can have another job next week.
And I don't think those things are disconnected. Now, I don't think it's completely just an empowerment, entitlement opportunity piece. I think that piece of that trauma, that collective trauma, that collective, “Hey, if I did have a job, did have an opportunity to work during the pandemic, I may have gone home, not had other opportunities worked too much.” And that is part of this response.
Traci:
Oh yeah. I do think the pandemic plays huge into this and the switch to remote working, especially for people who weren't used to remote working before. It's not like they got this little kit to go home and all of a sudden understand when they're supposed to turn it off. And some people are working in tight quarters where their desk is right there next to their bed. And it's hard to shut it off, and you don't even realize you're not doing it, and then all of a sudden you wake up and you're like, "What am I doing? I'm like, I'm having breakfast and I'm sitting at my desk at 7:30 in the morning and then I'm not turning it off until 7:00 at night. And I didn't even realize what I was doing." And to your point, when you can walk out of an office building and go meet a friend for a drink and then go home and whatever, that for a lot of people just boop, disappeared, just evaporated.
And so I do believe there's this kind of awakening that's two-fold. One is people are realizing they need boundaries. They've got to figure out this remote, hybrid, whatever world they're working in, they have to figure it out. And then secondly, I think the pandemic also the great pause, as I like to say, where people paused and they sort of reevaluated their life and they said what do I really want? And how am I really living? And who am I connected to and who am I not connected to? And what's my purpose in life and how do I want to figure that out? And am I really doing something I'm passionate about or am I not?
So I do think there's this great storm and almost great awakening in the workforce. What I think is interesting for us to point out with quiet quitting is that from a psychological standpoint, and as a coach, I will say I don't think it's the answer. It's not the answer to this problem. And so it goes against all the facets that make a job fulfilling and ultimately make your life fulfilling, is to just sit there and tap out or to sit there and just give just enough to get by. And I think that ultimately that's going to wreak havoc and take a toll on you mentally. Personally, if we want to talk about self-worth, the way you view yourself is not going to feel so great either consciously or subconsciously. And so if quiet quitting isn't the answer, what is the answer?
Rob:
Well, I think, yeah, that's a great point. Quiet quitting—I was talking to a behavioral scientist friend of mine, and her point was is the notion of quiet quitting doesn't give you the brain chemicals that you believe it will. There's none of those good things that happen. And the overall point of it's not just quiet quitting your job, it can be quiet quitting your life a little bit, and it's like one thing feeds another. And that some of the research seems to suggest that this is not the path to fulfillment and happiness like you just said.
But I think that for us as business owners how we combat this, it has to be the things that we've always should have done. Focus on engagement. Focus on getting people excited, opportunities, and giving people those places to make their investment. Because part of this, I think is also tied to what we've seen over the last several years, is the realization that some of the promises that our parents and our generation got about ‘you start a career, you end a career, there's loyalty from the company to the employees’ has been broken, too. So this is part of that backlash.
And I think that we can do better. We can actually take care of our people. We can have transparency. We can talk about what that shared investment looks like and how it's really a mutually edifying partnership. And I think that that message has gotten lost so much in the corporate world. And I think that that's part of the challenge that even if we are human-centered in our business practices, we have to say that and live that out and make it so that our staff feel it very, very often because they are getting this message from TikTok, and the business articles, and all these places where quiet quitting show up. Or this disenfranchisement with business and companies is there that if we're going to actively fight against those messages, we have to be as loud or be as often as they're getting it elsewhere.
Traci:
Right. That's true. And I mean, it's in their psyche now, whether it was before or after the TikTok video. And so it's there whether we like it or not. And so it does need to be addressed. And I like your angle of we need to be vocal as leaders and communicate.
And I think now more than ever is a time for owners and leaders to lean into transparency, to really talk about if some of this has to do with pay or benefits or whatever, lean into explaining how that all works. The mechanics of what, I mean, the average worker, especially a Gen Z, may not have ever understand how benefits play into salary and how the company actually pays a great deal of money for their benefits, and what is the amount of money that actually saves them individually? And talking about how we want to communicate about what their needs are, and that we want to make sure there's no stigma around taking paid time off. And there's no stigma around coming back from a maternity leave, or there's no stigma around just working remotely.
We start from a place of trust. We trust you that you're working. And so in this new dynamic, we also trust that you're turning the computers off when the end of the day is done and you're not turning them on. And we want to encourage you to do that. How many leaders have actually said that out loud? We want to encourage you to have your cup of coffee in the morning and journal or watch the Today Show or whatever your jam is, and then sit down and start your day. And we want you to turn off and go out to dinner or go get a drink or go knit on the couch, whatever it is.
But we as leaders have not been verbalizing this enough. And I think that once we get better at that, they will believe us.
Rob:
Yeah. It's not only verbalizing it, it's modeling it because they are watching. If you are up at all hours, sending emails, sending Slack messages, doing whatever, then your employees and your other leaders will take note of that and do the same. They will set that expectation.
Traci:
Right. And there's some rock stars that are like they can't sleep, they can't go to bed if they know somebody's still trying to communicate with them. It's in just their DNA. And so you're not letting those people rest, even if you don't mean to. Even if you start your email with, "I know it's after hours. Don't answer this until tomorrow." That's not fair. Just don't send it at all. Put it in your drafts and kick them all out in the morning. And I think leaders are just, we're going through the motions. We're all super busy and we're forgetting those things.
Rob:
There's a billion tools out there that allow you to even send those emails and not have them go out until the next morning or those messages or whatever. And that will be noticed and that leadership matters. It always does and always has.
Rob:
We have a pretty cool announcement today. We have a sponsor for our podcast, Overly Human.
Traci:
It's so exciting. Who is it?
Rob:
It's the Bureau. And why this is so exciting for us is this goes back to how we first met at a Bureau event many years ago.
Traci:
That's right. We sat next to each other at a lunch and we talked about how much we love the Bureau of Digital and how much we love humans. And now here we are with Overly Human.
Rob:
Yeah. And we've been to countless events over the last several years and we get to see each other every once in a while. And if you're not familiar or haven't checked them out in a while, now is the time. Join your peers in real discussions about how we run our businesses and get better at your craft with over 50 free online events next year. Memberships are going up, so don't wait. Visit bureauofdigital.com.
Traci:
So let's talk to the employees now. We've talked to the leaders. What do people who are quiet quitting right now need to hear?
Rob:
I think that they need to hear that their longevity is really important and how the investments you make today are super important for where you're going. And that's the way I like to talk to people who are early in their career is thinking about their career as almost making compound investments with interest. And how the more you invest now, not so much so where you destroy your life or any of that, but if you think about the things you do early, paying dividends later, I think that's a really good message. And I think it's true for everything I've seen in my career and everybody around me.
But I also think that when you think about that marathon and not the sprint, you need to be thinking about what does it take to take care of myself, take care of the group around me so that we can do this for the next how many every year your career is going to last?
And I know that we've talked recently. You had some really good research and thoughts about how careers are getting longer, not shorter, because lifespans are getting longer. So thinking about early, taking that time for yourself to avoid burnout, to avoid some of those negative things that can happen when you go all in, but do that in a way that is intentional, in a way that provides that balance for the longevity of it.
Traci:
Yeah, and I think if quiet quitting at worst is actually a passive-aggressive way of saying I'm not going to go above and beyond because I don't feel it anymore, is to maybe analyze what is going to bring you life? What is the thing that you can lean into? I mean, the last thing I want to see people do, or especially people who work for me is waste time and energy of their life and purpose and not be living out their purpose.
So rather than this kind of slow, painful march towards death in your job, this kind of passive just showing up, what a waste of life. And I would encourage people to voice what your needs are. I don't think quitting your job outright without at first trying to communicate with the people that you report to or the leaders of the company and voicing what's missing or voicing what the problems are, I think is a missed opportunity. And it's sort of avoiding conflict.
And we've talked about that in the past is like can we have healthy conflict where we can say and name what's going on? And I think past generations—if you think about our parents' generation, our grandparents' generation—they would form unions and they would picket and they would do all these things. They were hardly quiet and they never quit. They tried to change their situation. So I think, and again, this is at worst, if we're taking quiet quitting at its worst definition, is just sort of lazy. Stand up for yourself. Ask for what you want. Figure it out. Find a job that meets your passion and purpose. But don't waste your days. Work is way too many hours to say, "Oh, I'm just going to do just enough to get the paycheck." To me, that's a missed opportunity to master your unique talents and to connect with humans on a deeper level. And that is sad to me, and it saddens me, and I hope that people wake up and realize like, "Oh, well yeah, maybe I am doing that." And try to find a different way to navigate what they're feeling.
Rob:
Yeah, there's a ton of opportunity out there. If you're unhappy, you can actually quit.
Traci:
Or you can just go and have a conversation. And if you feel like that the leaders of your company are completely closed off to that, then yes, quit. But I do feel like the quietness keeps the leaders from actually knowing what's going on. I mean, they're human. They're not mind readers.
So I think first, I always say if you can fix your situation you're in, that is going to cost you a lot less time, energy, and money on both sides. If the owner and the leaders can fix it, and if the employees can fix it, it's going to be a much better route to go. Now if you can't fix it, it's not changeable, then yes, it's time to tap out completely and find something new. Or if it doesn't align with your purpose and passion, then yes, it's time to reevaluate. But have the conversation.
Rob:
Have the conversation. Stop. Be intentional about what you're going to do. We've said it before, write down your purpose statement for yourself and allow it to be flexible. It may change and that's okay. That's a healthy life is when you know are a different human a year from now than you were last year.
Traci:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it does take a change of perspective to be able to look at work is not just a means to an end, not just a way to fund your life. You kind of have to look at work differently and say, "Okay, what value is this bringing to my life? And can I enjoy it? And can it be an outlet for the unique way I was designed and gifted?" And that's a completely different perspective than saying, "This is just a means to an end and it's a paycheck and it helps pay for my vacations in my house."
Rob:
But it should do that, too.
Traci:
Hopefully.
Rob:
Yeah. All right. Any parting thoughts?
Traci:
Well, I mean, I'm kind of a broken record here, but let's try and talk this out. Have a conversation. Be more transparent. Really get the needs on the table. And leaders need to wake up and lean in. Don't be scared to have this conversation. Don't be scared of what they're going to ask for. Either you can provide it or not provide it, but have the conversation.
Rob:
Yeah, that's what I was going to say is that honesty and transparency is so important. This is not one of those things that I believe you can bury your head in the sand and pretend doesn't exist, because it does. And regardless of if you want to deal with it or not, you probably have to.
All right. Thanks, Traci.
Traci:
Thank you.
Announcer:
The Overly Human Podcast is brought to you by Navigate the Journey and Sparkbox. For more information on this podcast, or to get in touch with Traci or Rob, go to overlyhuman.com. If you like what you've heard, subscribe and tell your friends to listen. Thanks.
