Battling Burnout
Do you feel exhausted, distracted, disinterested, or even depressed? You may be experiencing burnout. Burnout is common and can happen to leaders at various stages of their career for a multitude of reasons. Traci and Rob discuss what burnout looks like, why it happens, and how to hit the reset button.
Transcript
Announcer:
Welcome to the Overly Human podcast where we discuss all things human in the workplace. Because it's not just business—it's personal too.
Rob:
Burnout is a state of emotional, physical, and mental exhaustion caused by excessive and prolonged stress. It occurs when you feel overwhelmed, emotionally drained, and unable to meet constant demands.
Traci:
Have you ever been burnt out, Rob?
Rob:
I have. It's been a few years, but I think that when we were starting Sparkbox the constant demands of billing hours and working on client projects and running the business and figuring that out—it was a lot. And it builds over time. For me, I started just making bad choices with my health and my time and in some ways ignoring my family and the things that I should have been putting my time into, so I could work more.
And it just led me to this place of being sad and not wanting to put the effort in. And I hit a point where I had to make some changes to that. Especially health wise and family wise, really had to ask myself the question of, “If you make it, and this is the reality, is it worth making it?” And once that got to that place I had to make some pretty significant changes to find a new happy place.
Traci:
Yeah.
Rob:
How about you?
Traci:
I definitely have experienced burnout. I think my biggest burnout experience led me to leaving my job at HGTV. I think that I was feeling some of the same things you were feeling, although mine was coming because I had been there for a really long time. It was almost two decades of my life in, I had seen the baby grow up into something amazing, but was feeling really exhausted, really distracted, a little bit drained, but also pulled in a bunch at different directions. And I think for me being a working mom was really hard. Being part of a marriage where we both had jobs, so that dual income, constant moving, constant traveling. I really was having a hard time getting to the other side of that burnout.
So hearing some of those choices you were making and how you were processing through, I think for me, I was getting to that point of, I cannot believe the lie anymore that women can have it all. I don't quite think I can have it all and be the best version of myself. And then also I think that I needed a break. I needed a break, and I wasn't working for a company that gave sabbaticals or anything like that. It was either stay or go. And I think that urge for, what would life be like on the other side, could I create something different? And I've been at the same place since I was 24. Could it feel different to go elsewhere, to try something, to jump off that cliff, as scary as it is?
So I think what's interesting about both of our stories are they came at different parts of our career, and we both made different decisions. One just stick with the company and their trajectory and the path you're on and the other to pivot completely and try something new. So I think maybe burnout is a crossroads, right? It's a chance to reevaluate and say, “Am I where I need to be, how I need to be, and what are my next steps to get me to a better place emotionally, physically?”
Rob:
Yeah. I think that's really important. I think that, and this goes into my overall view on life and careers anyway, is they're not a destination, it's a journey. It's something that…It's a road you travel not a place I'm trying to arrive at. And I think that's something that I had to learn through my experience is, what does making it mean? And just because you get there does not mean that's what happiness is. It's about maintaining that as you go through the road and as you go down the journey. And I've been in situations, other situations where you get to a place where you just can't imagine continuing to do this no matter how good the situation is, you just need different.
And I think that how we see that in ourselves and recognize what that looks like, and how do we help other people see it on our teams so that they can avoid it. Because it's not a quick road back. And it's a weird one because the effects of burnout are not just mental, there's physical manifestations of it, lower resistance to illness, and other lower productivity, and consequences at home with spouses and children and family members and all of that. And it's a serious thing.
Traci:
Yeah. And I think the first step, once you realize you're burnt out, because the first thing is admitting you have a problem, right? So, once you realize, I am exhausted, I am distracted, I am feeling maybe depressed and tired and I can't lift myself out of it—I must be burnt out. The next step after that is what caused this? Why am I here? And in your definition that you opened with, yes, is it stress? If it's stress, what is that rooted in? Is it pressure? Is it bad relationships? Is it that my business is running me instead of me running my business? Is it problems at home? Is it my marriage? Is it chronic depression? What is it that's led to how I feel? Which once you can identify that root cause will really help you in finding the best solution.
Rob:
Yeah. And I think that there's that old theory, right? We've got three different phases in our lives. We've got career, we've got home, and we've got whatever spiritual thing that we believe in and practice. And we as people can have only one of those be at chaos at once, right? Like we need to have the other two be planted and feel safe in those spaces so that we can deal with the stress in the other one. And so many times the stress from one of those leaks into the other places and it becomes this consuming thing where it doesn't feel like there's an escape.
Traci:
Right. And I think part of the reason why I always try to take my clients to finding the cause first, is because we can choose the wrong solution if we don't know the cause. So if the stress is coming from just a bad business partnership or the stress is coming from home or the stress is coming because of a bad client that you have, sometimes we can make the wrong decisions and say, Oh, well, we're just done with this. Or I'm just going to make this change and you're not making the right change.
So really getting behind and starting to sit down and actually sit in it instead of trying to outrun it, which I know a lot of people do, especially owners and CEOs, they try to outrun the burnout. Like it'll just go away eventually. And I just need to add one more thing to my plate, or I just need to do this. I just need to and eventually it'll go away. Because they don't want to sit in it or they're scared of the voices in their head. And what is it going to lead to? It usually leads to bad decisions.
So the first step is just take a breath, disconnect, and sit in it, and really try to figure out what's going on in my life. And I like that you're looking at the different domains of your life. It's like, let's take a measurement of how are things at home? How are things in my marriage? How am I doing spiritually? How am I doing physically? How's my health? How's my business partnership? What does my staff look like? What are the type of people I'm surrounded with? What's happening with my clients? When you start to take inventory, you can start to whittle down, like where exactly is this burnout coming from?
Rob:
Yeah. And I think that for me one of the key things that I've found as an indicator when I'm getting to a place that isn't healthy is when I start avoiding things. And I'm not somebody who avoids conflict or problems, but when I start finding and putting myself in a situation to not have to deal with things, that's a key stress indicator for me that I can recognize.
And I operate my life mostly in a bunch of pretty open, honest relationships. There is my relationship with my business partner, I can tell him what's going on. And same thing with my wife, there are days where she'll come home and she'll want to talk about something, and we've got the kind of relationship where I can look at her and be like, “Man, sorry, Laura. I've had a day at work. I can't do that conversation right now. I'm not trying to avoid it. Can we do it tomorrow or this weekend?” I need this to be a safe place where I don't have to solve a problem in this moment.
And getting to that point where you can have those level of conversations with people that you care about and let them know what you need, I think a huge lift for making those things better.
Traci:
Yeah. I think another sign, it's great that you've identified avoidance as one of the things that points you to, “Oh, something might be wrong.” Our last couple of conversations have been, we've looked at assessments and we've looked at what's our shadow self, what are our blind spots? And those are the things that tend to bubble to the top when you're experiencing burnout.
So when you're under pressure and you're under a lot of stress is when that shadow unhealthy side of you comes out. So you might start treating people a little bit poorly or avoidance in your case, or be quick or hasty, lack impulse control, lack empathy. Those things might start. You might just start to see those or the people around you might start to see those things. And that's an indicator like, “Oh, something's awry.”
Rob:
Yeah. So for you and your story what changes did you make and what things have you done to put yourself in a better place to prevent burnout?
Traci:
I think probably the biggest thing for me, and often I tell my clients is, you have to put the oxygen mask on yourself first. So you need to make sure you're physically doing something to help the stress escape, or it's going to come out in another way. So for me, whether that's going for long walks, whether it's just getting a little time to myself to refuel, whether it's just sitting on the back porch with a glass of wine and a magazine and just allowing myself some nonproductive time to refuel, I think is really important.
The second thing that I have to do, is I have to change my perspective. I have to get really...And I know going through crises or going through different things, whether it's a crisis at work or a crisis in society or whatever, it's getting to the place of the present and getting my perspective, my head screwed on straight, and being intentional with the present and not starting to think too much about the future or sit too much in the past. And really start thinking about, okay, what am I feeling? What's happening with me? How can I just get my head in a better space? Get rid of that imposter syndrome or get rid of those lies I have a tendency to tell myself. How can I get myself in a better space? So that's sort of my oxygen mask, like what I need to do first. And to help relieve some of the burnout.
What's your first go to when you start to feel the pressure?
Rob:
The things that I've done that set myself up with systems and habits and all of those to help keep myself in a good place, really started with making sure that I've got a physical outlet. That I'm keeping my gym schedule, keeping moving, I find that those moments allow me to put my energy on something that I have control over, that I can have that place with my alone thoughts and focus on something and put a bunch of energy into something that I can't get angry with. When I'm working out or lifting weights there's nothing to do besides move that. It's a mental game.
And that keeps me sharp for the moments that I have to be on. That was a huge thing for me but it's making sure that stuff happens, putting it on my calendar, making those like this is when it's going to happen and Oh, by the way, very little is going to be able to move that. I think for me, that's what I needed. And that's what I continue to need to make sure that I've got that space sectioned off. And I actually look forward to it now. It's like now this is my relief place.
This is where things can...Because the old adage that I've learned from running businesses, poop rolls downhill. I don't know that I believe that anymore. I think it can, but I think the really, really nasty poop rolls uphill. And we've got a very, very capable team of leaders and the problems that land on my desk are the ones that nobody else wants to touch. And more than anything, I need to have my wits about me and to be in a good place to deal with that stuff when it comes up. And I think that when we talk about burnout and all those things, getting to a place where you want to avoid problems and that being in your job isn't a good place to be.
Traci:
Yeah. And I think after we take care of ourselves and we get our mind in the right place, I think another really helpful tool with burnout is to turn to somebody else to ask for help, to go to that trusted friend or colleague or coach or somebody and just process and say, am I seeing this correctly? What am I missing? Why am I stuck? And I think that's just a really healthy, vulnerable thing to do, is to go to somebody else and process.
Because we don't have all the answers. And it's really hard when we're in the weeds to see the whole picture. And especially if you're feeling depressed or stressed, it's like our meter, our perspective meter is a little off. So if you have that trusted friend or that person, that mentor, or somebody you know really is objective, and they're good at helping you pinpoint, man, go to that person and ask for help. And really just process through and be vulnerable, be willing to hear the hard things that they might have to say to you.
Rob:
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, I think those kinds of friends, got to hang on to them, they are so valuable. The other thing that I'm constantly thinking about in this way, and this is a big change for me, is or was, is saying no more than I say yes. And having the perspective of every time I say yes, it's saying no to hundreds, if not thousands of other opportunities. Because as we go along in our career, there's lots of opportunities and lots of good things in the world you can say yes to. But there's still a fixed amount of time and energy to do that.
And we've talked about this before, but this whole idea of work life balance drives me nuts, because there's a single bucket of energy that I pull from for all of it. And if I overcommit, I will cut into time and energy that should be reserved for either the people I live with or other things that I need to do for me. And I'll end up doing those for others. I think we all have to be careful and have that perspective of, is the juice worth the squeeze, is this worth doing?
Traci:
Yeah. I mean, you probably hit on one of the biggest reasons why I hit burnout so often and so many of my clients have burnout. Is that feeling, and this happens with a lot of people who strive to achieve, is that you feel like you need to say yes to everything or that you need to do everything yourself, right? “So, well, I'll just take care of that. Or yes, I'll help you with that.” And so, not delegating or not setting some boundaries for yourself, it's all grouped in together. For some people it's just, they have no boundaries and they just take everything on. And for other people it's more, feeling this perfectionist way of looking at things and so they don't delegate.
And this is how a lot of owners of businesses get in trouble. And they'll oftentimes be like, “Well, I feel like my business is running me. I'm not running my business. I don't understand. Why does it just feel so hard? And why am I feeling all that responsibility but nobody else is?” And usually the reason is, why you're feeling everything is because you're not delegating the responsibility. You're not sharing the ownership with your entire team, and you're not holding other people accountable to share in that ownership.
And so then, oftentimes owners will wake up and they'll just feel completely overwhelmed. And so you've got to figure out like, what is the system that I'm going to run my business on? Do I need a leadership team? Do I need to involve other people in ownership? Do I need to have a vision? Do I need to share that? How can I really share this responsibility and share this ownership so that everybody's rowing in the same direction and I don't feel so alone at the top?
Rob:
That alone at the top isn't a great feeling. And I've said this before too, but I can't imagine running Sparkbox without Ben, my business partner. Because we have a great leadership team, I've got a lot of peers and a lot of close friends, but nobody understands the context like somebody I'm in it with. That has as much responsibility and as much ownership and as much risk as I do. That relationship is different and special for so many different reasons, but because we have a similar context.
Traci:
Yeah. I mean, if you have a great partnership and they're not easy to come by, but man, if you have a great partnership, nurture that. Because it is such a gift. And if you don't have a partner and you don't really want to bring somebody into ownership, a leadership team, a good leadership team, even a small, good leadership team is such a great route to go. So that you have people that you can share those ideas with and that you can process things through. But then the entire agency or company that you are running should be brought into the picture as well.
I think sometimes people make the mistake and they think, Oh, there's boundaries around these things or we can't be transparent. Or maybe people don't really care, or they don't...They care as much as what you show them and what you bring them into. But it's amazing when I've seen owners make that shift, the relief six months later after they've rolled out this new way of running things. They just feel this huge weight has been lifted, that they don't feel so alone, and they've taken that pressure off of themselves and now are sharing it with everybody.
Rob:
Yeah. I mean, I think people respond how you treat them. And if you treat people like adults who are capable of understanding complex things and dealing with real realities, then people show up and act like that. And if you treat them like they shouldn't understand those things or will react badly, then they won't disappoint there either. They'll act like they don't have all the information. And I know we've said this before, I think when we talk about communication, but people will write stories of their own with incomplete information. And the stories they write will be way, way, way, way worse than reality—almost always. And so, that's a big deal.
The other thing that I want to make sure we touch on is burnout and what it looks like to get out from that place. And for me, and the things that I've read and understand is it takes sometimes a long road back out of that. It's not a quick fix. It's not deciding this is the change and then I'm done with it. It takes almost as long as it took you to get into that burned out state to get back out again, get back to a happy place.
Traci:
Yeah. And I think it depends on what the cause is. And I think that's why everything we just talked about is so important. Like really understanding, you're saying, the road that got you into it, what are the causes? And sometimes it's not as long of a journey out because maybe it's just one bad relationship. Maybe it's just one bad client that you've been relying on for way too long and you haven't had the guts to just fire that client. Maybe it's a bad partnership that you've been dealing with and you've tried so hard but it's just never going to work. And you need to start having that hard conversation of breaking up that partnership. Maybe it's a marriage that you've been avoiding actually going to therapy, and you're ashamed to go to therapy or you're scared of therapy or whatever, and you just need to go home and face the facts.
So it just depends on what is feeding into that burnout and what's the reasoning behind it. It could be team dynamics. It could be that you have never gotten a hold on the culture because you've been so busy making a ton of profit, right? And so you think everything's okay and then one day you wake up and you realize not everything's okay. And you just really need to get behind those team dynamics. But if it is team dynamics or if it is a partnership, it might be a long road out. If it's your own inability to manage your blind spots or your own inability to run a company and you need to get coaching or training, that might be a longer journey. But once you take that first step to whatever it is to solve that problem, man, you're already going to start to feel better.
Rob:
Yeah. I think that everybody who's going through something like this also just needs to give themselves permission to not be okay. This isn't something that, is putting on a brave face and smile and it's going to get you through. This is something that's going to take effort and take that sitting with it and being uncomfortable to get through it.
Traci:
Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think it would be really bad, the therapist in me needs to say depression is real. It's a real thing. So, sometimes you might just be feeling depressed and it can spiral out of control. So, I want you to feel your feelings. I don't want you to push them down. But if you're feeling depressed for a prolonged period of time, do not hesitate to call a therapist or call a counselor because it's a real thing. And once you make that brave choice to go and talk to somebody, you will feel benefits from that that will last you a lifetime. So, I just want to encourage people who are listening and they're like, “Yeah, I like everything you're saying, but I still can't get out of it. I just feel so dark.” That could just be depression. It could be your chemical imbalance. It could just be your make up. So don't be scared to just pick up the phone and find a great therapist and start to dig in. Because you will benefit from that.
Rob:
Yeah. Alright. So how do you want to wrap this one up, Traci?
Traci:
Well, I think that a lot of us are feeling burnout right now. And this time that we're in, I think a lot of business owners, if you haven't felt burnout yet, you're going to feel it someday. It is a natural, just rhythm of running a business. And so, I think just to recap, know that you're not alone, know that burnout is to be expected, really go after trying to figure out the cause of it, and go through some of these steps we've talked about today. Put that oxygen mask on you first, reach out to those people around you and get behind what the causes and go after that solution sooner, rather than later. Don't avoid it. Don't push it down. Don't try to escape. But face it, head on.
Rob:
Yeah. Alright. Well thanks, Tracy. Appreciate you.
Traci:
Thank you. Appreciate you too. Until next time.
Announcer:
This podcast would not be possible without the amazing communications team at Sparkbox. If you'd like what you've heard, please subscribe and tell your friends to listen as well. The Overly Human podcast is brought to you by Navigate the Journey and Sparkbox. For more information on this podcast, or to get in touch with Traci or Rob, go to overlyhuman.com. Thanks for listening.
