Strategic Life Mapping with Carl Smith from The Bureau of Digital
Taking time to make a strategic life map can really help you understand the past patterns of your life and set you up for success after a crossroads. Tune in as Rob and Traci interview Carl Smith from the Bureau of Digital about his experiences from his life mapping process with Navigate the Journey.
This episode is brought to you by the Bureau of Digital. Learn more at bureauofdigital.com.
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Announcer:
Welcome to the Overly Human Podcast, where we discuss all things human in the workplace. Because it's not just business—it's personal too.
Announcer:
Welcome to the Overly Human Podcast where we discuss all things human in the workplace because it's not just business, it's personal too.
Rob:
Welcome to 2023. This is our first episode of the new year, and it's pretty exciting that we have our first guest on Overly Human. Carl Smith joins us to kind of talk about something that we're going to talk a lot about over the next couple of weeks. Our co-host, and my good friend, Traci has been working on a book that's coming out here very soon about life maps and working on Strategic Life Maps. And Carl went through that process with Navigate The Journey a couple of years ago. And we're going to talk about his experience with that and just have a great conversation.
So how's it going, Carl?
Carl:
It's going great. I am just thrilled to be the first guest and also in the first episode for 2023. Are you kidding me? Y'all are really taking a risk here, but I appreciate it.
Rob:
Yeah, we may not get these people back, but here we go.
Carl:
Let's do it.
Rob:
How's it going, Traci?
Traci:
It's good. I'm with two of my favorite people in the whole wide world today, so there is no better way to kick off the new year than with you guys. So I just echo a big, big, big thanks, Carl. We're super excited. Literally, it was a perfect fit for what we're talking about, but Rob and I just couldn't think of a better person to have on regardless of what the topic was. You're the one who brought Rob and I together, so it feels like it's just the right thing to do, and plus we love talking to you. So glad you're here.
Carl:
Well, I'm excited to be here. Let's go.
Traci:
Let's go. Okay. So like Rob said, you went through the Life Map process with Navigate The Journey specifically with Tom. And I know he loved spending those two days with you, and sure it was a bonding experience for both of you. But I'd love to go back to that time. And I know you had heard a lot about the process and Tom and I talking about it, and how we had done many owners and have walked many leaders through the process.
And basically for anybody who doesn't know that's listening, Strategic Life Map is a two-day one-on-one process where we meet individually with a person and we talk about how you got to where you are today, what is your current status today, and where would you like to go. And we do things like talk about your history and what were some major pivotal turning points in your life, and what did we learn from that. We talk about what are the issues you're wrestling with today.
And it's very career-focused, and it's very much... It speaks to that crossroads in life that we all come to where whether that's midlife, mid-career, where we say, you know what? What do we want the rest of our life to look like and what is life on our own terms? And who are we today versus who we were in the past? And where does not only our gifting and ability lie, but where does our heart lie? And how answering those questions can really help us paint a picture and a vision of where we want to go, get that into our psyche, but also it gives you an action plan to take with you so that you can execute upon that dream.
So take us back to that experience. What led you to want to do it when you heard about it?
Carl:
Well, there were a few things. First of all, I knew some people who had been through it, and it seemed like they came out really focused, and I'll even say happier. And so for me, that was a big part of it. I wanted to understand it because first of all, it was something that was going on in the community so I wanted to be a part of it. But secondly, I felt really stuck. I was really busy and it seemed like things were okay, but I wasn't having fun anymore. It felt like I was just kind of on this treadmill and no matter how fast I ran, scenery kept going by at the same speed. So I thought maybe this would be something that could help me unlock a little bit of what was going on.
Traci:
Great. Yeah, that so resonates with so many people who've come to us. It's a great way to put it like the scenery's going by, life is going by. And especially knowing you as somebody who wants to be intentional, who wants to be present, who doesn't want life to pass them by, so that really makes sense that that would be one of the key things that would draw you.
The first day of the process, you sit a lot in your history and you wrestle through some of these pivot points in your life that altered your trajectory in small or big ways. And how was that experience for you going back and touching base on all those points in your life?
Carl:
Yeah, it was painful but valuable. If you're really going to focus and take a look at yourself... And you can't do it by yourself, right? If Tom hadn't been there, I would've gone off and gotten lunch and just told myself to forget about it. But I couldn't, there was somebody there. It was like signing up for a gym membership with somebody. It's like I had to do this now.
But I think the biggest part was when I just started to see the patterns and I realized I was the one who was causing my own pain, who was causing my own suffering. But at the same time, that was illuminating and empowering because I realized, well, hell, if I'm the one doing it and I've done it again and again and again, even though it could be years apart, then I'm the one who can stop doing it. And so just being able, especially that first day and going back and looking at my personal history right down to when I was a little kid, the earliest stuff I can remember to some of the most painful moments, losing somebody I cared about or being in a nasty breakup, I found the trends.
Traci:
Yeah. And I think that's one of the gifts of the process because I think with strategic planning, whether it's for a business or whether it's for us personally, we tend to skip the past and we just say, what do we want? How are we going to get there? And we start there. And that's not going to give us the perspective we really need. And like you said, it sets us up to repeat the same patterns.
And I think one of the powerful things about the process is that, like you said, there's a facilitator, a coach there that's connecting the dots and pulling this out of you and showing you the trajectory, and it all of a sudden becomes this huge self-awareness experience.
And as we all know, the first step in any sort of growth is self-awareness. And so I think that's interesting because we... And I write about this in my book too about self-limiting beliefs and patterns that we pick up and generational influences and labels we've been given, whether good or bad over our lifetime, and how we wrestle with those in our psyche and how they can trip us up.
So do you feel that articulating those was in and of itself a turning point for you, a pivotal turning point moving forward?
Carl:
Yeah. I mean articulating, but also documenting. I mean, we had all those Post-it Notes up on the wall and we're going through. And one of the things for me, once we got to the eighth or ninth gigantic Post-it Note, I find myself scanning across them and starting to see those down points and what I was doing to make that happen. If I hadn't been able to visualize it because of the way that I normally process information, I don't think it would've worked as well. But because I was able to and go back and look at it, the one thing it really exposed for me was how much I blamed others for things that had happened in my life when I could take one step back in what we had talked about and realize I set this up to happen.
I think the biggest thing that came out of it for me was how much I self-sabotaged most of my life. I still had a successful career going. I still had all these things, but there would always come a point in my success where I don't think I was comfortable with it. And so I would plant some sort of little bomb somewhere, wait on it to go off, and then blame someone.
Traci:
Wow. Yeah.
Carl:
And I never would've gotten there, I would've continued to blame people from the past and not be able to let go of it and not be able to want to repeat certain things so I could do them better. But once I was able to let go of that, that's when it suddenly was like, oh, okay, so I can move forward. I can get off this treadmill and find a path.
Traci:
Yeah. And it's so different than therapy because this process is set up to be action-oriented, but we are putting your whole life up on the wall. So it's not like you're coming in for an hour talking about one specific moment in your life and then leaving, this is, I think has a lot of impact in a short amount of time because you're really seeing the trajectory and able to pick up those repeated patterns. So instead of just saying, “Oh, well, I did that once.” We can say, “Well, it's here, here, here, and here.” And then that has a greater impact than just a one-off discussion about one incident in your life.
And also we're talking about things that changed the trajectory of which way you went. So these pivotal people in your life, these pivotal crossroads in your life, these pivotal decisions, good or bad, and getting to see sort of the ups and downs where you felt the best, where were you most motivated, what was feeding your soul, and what was a soul suck. Which is really great intel when we start to think about your future.
So thanks for sharing that, because I think that's like... It's hard sometimes to admit our flaws even when we know we're not perfect. But it's like, it works the best for people who are like, “Hey, I know I'm not perfect, I just don't want to keep doing the same things over again because I don't want to hurt myself, I just want to find a better way”. And you've lived enough life to say, where do I want to go from here?
So thanks for being vulnerable and sharing that with us, because I know from my own experience in talking to many owners that they can completely relate to what you're saying. That whole self-sabotaging, that whole imposter syndrome or fear of... all those things are kind of a web that we have to unravel in our own lives as business owners, as leaders. So it's big.
Carl:
Well, you're welcome. I mean a lot of it is human, right? Being human. And you made that comparison to therapy. And I've been through therapy a few times, and my dad was a therapist, so it was a psychologist. So it was like one of those things where you're like, what's happening here? But what was really interesting comparing the Strategic Life Map to therapy was because in therapy you are dealing with one thing at a time, it can be really hard to see those patterns. And it can be really hard to figure out, as we worked on in the second day, how do we move forward. And so that I think was one of the biggest changes for me. Because I journal all the time, I meditate, I do all the things, but being able to see it and have to say it out loud to another person, such a shift.
Traci:
Yeah.
Well, the next phase that we go through is really sitting in who you are today. And so we spend time defining what is so unique and innate in you, like your giftings, your talents, personal core values, which I know so many people have done core values for their business but have we done it for ourselves? Creating a mission purpose statement. All the tools we as business owners use in our own companies to make sure that our company is focused on the right track, understands what the mission is and who we are as a company DNA, we're doing all of those very familiar tools that have been around for decades on our own personal life because we're really trying to see our life 360, we're trying to see it as more than just work. How are we unique and different? If our fingerprint on the outside is unique from everybody else, I believe there's a fingerprint on the inside.
So going through those exercises and really articulating and writing those out, how was that for you?
Carl:
That was great. I mean, that was the fun part because you start to look at your strengths.
Traci:
Yep.
Carl:
So those are the things that you may have not told yourself again and again because brains like to focus on that negative stuff, but it's the kind of stuff you love to share or you love to hear somebody else tell you. And I think that was one of the bigger parts.
For me, when Tom was leading me through that, I was thinking about my gratitude folders. So I have a physical one and I have a digital one. And I was just thinking about, okay, I know what I think, but what are the things I hear again and again? And so for me, it became this opportunity to formalize why I was good at things, and I think that's something we all miss a lot. And also why I was here, why I was doing what I was doing.
And it really came down for me, one of my talents was bringing people together and making people feel good, being a goofball lightening the moment. One of the things from day one was how much I would absorb that and take it in and not have anywhere to let it go. And so there would be these moments of... I don't want to say manic depressive, but it was that highs and lows and wanting to be around people and wanting to be alone, and being able to see that in the second day, how those two things were kind of connected was again, really powerful.
But for me, one of my core values, my personal core values is being truthful. And that can be really hard, right? We all know the whole, “It's a little white lie. I just want them to feel good.” And so when I started looking at what I was great at, which was bringing people together and that core value of being truthful and the tendencies that I had had to be negative and absorb it, one of the things that I had written down—and Rob you were on this list—was I have to share with people I really trust when I'm down and let them know because they're going to lift me up. But if I don't let that negative energy out, then I'm going to repeat that pattern that I saw on day one where I self-sabotage. So thanks, Rob. I mean, you know some of the other people for sure. And that was a eye-opener for me, realizing that I had what I needed around me to realize all of the things I wanted to get done in my life.
Traci:
Yeah. Oh, that's great. I think doing personal core values is so powerful because it does identify who we need to keep close and why we might not gel with some other people. So when we meet people or are around certain people and we can't put a finger on why am I not gelling with that person? What is it? Sometimes it's because they're rubbing up against our core values. And I think the people that we feel super aligned with, it's because they're gelling with our core values, and those are the relationships we can go deep with and rely on and feel safe with. And so I think that's one of the reasons why you and Rob are so close is because your core values, at least on the outside seemingly aligned. Yeah. Lots of love.
Rob:
Well, it's that time again where we thank our sponsor the Bureau of Digital, a community of digital makers that all get together and share and support each other. And today we have a special treat. Carl, the head of the Bureau is here with us.
Hey, Carl.
Carl:
Hey everybody. Thank you for having me be on the show. We don't sponsor any other podcasts, and when I listened to what y'all were doing, I was like, we need to support them. We need to find a way that we can help. So I was like, ah, we'll be a sponsor.
Rob:
Yeah. And we really do appreciate it. And if you have any questions, check out bureauofdigital.com. The 2023 event schedule is up and live. And a big change for this year is if you join and become a member, all of the online events are included. And there's some really good ones, you don't want to miss out. So don't wait, visit bureauofdigital.com.
Traci:
So I know one of the things because you've said this at various camps that "one of the most powerful things for you in the process was really weighing up career options and really wrestling with, okay, I was an agency owner, I did this for years. I'm at the Bureau, which one, what suits me the best, watch the trajectory of the rest of my life be from a work perspective." So talk us through what was that process like and what was it like when you were comparing between being an agency owner and then what you're doing at the Bureau, and what were some ahas that you had?
Carl:
Sure. So being an agency owner, as everybody who's ever done that or probably led a team or been a part of any group, it was amazingly exciting. It was so much energy. The feeling of your group kind of against the world. And we were lucky that we had really talented folks so we won a lot. And it was fun to win. And the other thing was we were getting recognition for saying things, all this stuff. So there was all this positive energy. What I forget was when things weren't great. And that was something in day one when I started looking at it and I've told myself this tale about the good times, and I've kind of put all the other stuff in a closet that I'm not looking at it.
When I think about the Bureau, the Bureau definitely had some of those downtimes as well. But ultimately what I loved about running my shop was helping the people in it to grow and creating things. If it was a website or an app or a video or whatever, the process of creating was so powerful. But when I looked at the Bureau, I have that opportunity too. And maybe I don't always take advantage of it the way I could was one of the things that came out of it was... I mean, the hoodie, right? It's like there's still opportunities to create great things, but the bigger thing with the Bureau was that there was this opportunity to help more people. And not even have to help them, but just introduce them, just get them to each other. I've introduced I don't know how many people to each of you, right?
And so for me, ultimately as we went through everything, it just became obvious that I was never going to run a shop again. I always had this vision that I did it wrong. You know what? I did it the way you did it. We didn't have all the things. We didn't use terms like utilization. We didn't understand operations. These weren't things that a web shop did, right? We were just making stuff. And that's what that time in the evolution of building things for the web was.
So realizing that this opportunity now allows me to help so many more people, allows me to create spaces and environments, if not items, right? So I freed myself, I let go of something that had been holding on to me and gnawing at me that I had done it wrong, and I knew enough now to do it right. When the reality was, I was doing it right and it had nothing to do with the past.
Traci:
Yeah, oh that's so great. And looking at you and knowing you now and seeing the differences, and I think it's easy for us to want to rest in the past and knowing what's safe. And I'm sure the draw of going back to starting another agency is strong because you've gathered all this wisdom and you have all this community and you want to give it another go. But I love the beauty of the fact that your unique gifting and all the wisdom you had gained over the years just made the Bureau a perfect fit for you.
And I think once you had that realization that I can be a great connector, I can have a wider impact, I can lean into this as scary as it may feel, because it is still this fledgling thing that you've turned into this huge success, that the success of the Bureau has been based on you wanting to have a significant impact as opposed to the success being based on just you wanting to be successful or just wanting to be known or just wanting to make money.
And I think that's a big pivot point there because I always talk about our focus on significance rather than success. And all I'm hearing and what you're saying is that all of a sudden it was like this aha that you're significant impact. I want to have significant impact and I want to do it through my gifting, and that's going to be much more impactful through the Bureau than it is through me starting another agency or going to work for another agency.
Carl:
And one thing that I hadn't really thought about until now but... So I'll end up with 70 or a 100 legitimate emails a day. And it's at the end of my day, I sit down and I reply to all of them. There may be some that came in late, whatever, but it used to be the thing that bum me out. Before I went through the Strategic Life Map, it was kind of like, oh, I've got to get to that. But then after I realized that's the gold, that's where I'm meeting new people, that's where I'm connecting folks who have a problem with folks who might be able to help.
And I think previously I always felt like I had to be in the middle of it, I had to be part of the solution, and then when I realized that the solution had nothing to do with me, so liberating. And now I'm just a conduit, but man, do I get a lot of positive energy and love. I get thanked all the time for things that feel like they were almost selfish because I just wanted to see those people succeed, and that's where the energy comes back from.
Traci:
Yeah. And being a conduit, being a connector is a talent that's unique to you, you're good at it. You're better at it than 98% of the rest of the universe. So I think that because it's such a gifting, and when you lean into that gift and recognize that gift, oh my gosh, it's just amazing, and look what's happening. And I love that sort of aha awakening to like, oh, now I see my purpose. And when I lean into it, I'm not the only one rewarded and feeling good, but look at all these other people that are feeling good and connected. And the impact you're having is wide and far than had you not leaned into that purpose and seen your mission before you.
Rob:
Yeah. I also see the output of that. You've changed some of how you run the Bureau because of it, right? The business has changed a little bit to lean into those things that brought you joy and that you're special gifting, right?
Carl:
Yeah, absolutely. I was able to move from fear to trust. And I've never verbalized that before, but that is exactly what it was. I was previously just building up things I thought were falling down, and then I learned maybe they need to fall down. Maybe that's not the way it needs to go. I need to just follow where everybody else is going.
And Rob, you taught me that in a lot of ways. I mean, especially when the first time I heard you say it's a new season. You talk about change of seasons all the time, and that allowed me to go let it crumble a little, see what goes up in its place. And that's when for me, I was able to let other people start to take the lead on things because I didn't feel like anyone was going to find out I didn't know what I was doing. I started celebrating that I didn't know what I was doing. I put that at the forefront, which I think enabled other people to help.
Traci:
Yeah. That's great. And I feel like one of the things about going through the vocational career mapping and starting to imagine where you're best suited vocationally that I've seen with business owners is a couple of different outcomes. A lot of times it's people fall back in love with where they are. They fall back in love with the company they created, they fall back in love with... because they see it in a whole new way, and they see how they can show up.
I mean, there's so many business owners that come to me to go through the process, and they're like, I'm bored. I'm restless. I feel disconnected. I'm doubting myself. I feel like I should just sell or give it up, or whatever. And it's like, okay, in some cases they should. And in some cases, we get to that place where, you know what? I think you've done all you can do. These ideas you keep talking about with me, you're 12 times more excited about these, so let's play them out and see if they'll work.
But then sometimes I'm like, I think the problem is you and you need to really reimagine yourself as a business owner and understand that there's some things you need to let go of, and there's new and fresh ways you can lean into your business. So there's a lot of different outcomes that can happen through the process. But my job and Tom's job is really to just help people connect the dots and help them see, you said that four times, just so you know. And oftentimes people are like, wait, I did? No, I didn't. I'm like, yeah, you did. So we're going to sit on that for a second. And what does that mean? And what do you really want? And your heart is not here, it's over there, or your heart's still here, you just lost it. So that's kind of the beauty of the process.
And so I think for you, it's just great to see that you just had to pull back the layers a bit and fall in love and see your place and then lean into it with great confidence. Like you said, let go of the fear, trust, jump in. And we all know where the Bureau is today, and I think what I'm excited about is where it's even going to go from here, which is massive.
So I think my last question for you is what are your hopes for your life in general moving forward? I know you went through the vision statement and the legacy statement. And thinking about the second half of your life and the long road ahead, what are the big things that you hope for?
Carl:
So I love the way you say the second half because I do want to hit 110. I think I can do it.
Traci:
Yeah, you can. I think you can too.
Carl:
But I think of it in thirds, really. And so my work career, so it's like I work for somebody else for about 14 years, and I learned. Watching her, I learned so much about empathy, learned a little bit about manipulation, experienced that manipulation. I saw what it was to manage people. I saw what it was to manage upset people. That second third was practicing. I ran my shop for almost exactly 14 years. And the ability to take what I'd learned, but also put my own self into it and also run something with other people, it was one of the best times of my life.
Now, I'm in that final third, and it's all about just sharing and connecting and bringing as many people as I can together. When you look at the Bureau today and you look at the growth that we're still experiencing, I don't know how far this goes, but what I know... And I got three of these messages today from people who were just so thankful that they found the Bureau. What I know is that it matters and that we've got to find a way to keep maintaining a sense of intimacy, especially as we continue to grow, and that for me becomes the real focus.
It's not about any kind of traditional business metrics, it's about the ability to create a place where people can self-organize the groups they need. And there's no way I could have gotten there if I hadn't let go of the stuff that Tom was able to show me, if I hadn't been able to suddenly trust myself, even though I'm convinced still I don't know what I'm doing. And be able to lean into my friends and my support network so that on those days when I'm so down that I have somebody who can just cry with me or punch me in the face and tell me to get over it, whichever one I might happen to need.
So really, for me, what happens as I ride off into the sunset is just what I'm doing now and just trying to keep it going and as valuable as possible, and eventually finding somebody that I hand the torch to and say, hey, this is too important to stop, go get them.
Traci:
Yeah. And therein lies the legacy, right? You are building something that you want to live beyond you. And despite your fingerprints being all over it, all your little touches of love and empathy and connection and all the impact and the goodness that you want to happen through the Bureau, you're also building something bigger, broader, more lasting beyond you. And I think that is a beautiful thing that you can only get to that place having gone through the journey that you've gone through, having gone through the self-awareness, having shifted the mindset from being focused on just success, title, wealth, and shifting to impact and legacy and love, and all the things that we as humans...
And Rob and I talk about this so much on the show, is like, we're humans sharing this planet and at some point... Yes, it's a business, yes, we want it to be profitable, yes, we do use all these same tools to make your business profitable and healthy and happy, but in the end, no eulogy is going to have somebody standing on stage reading our resume. That's just not going to happen. They're going to say over and over again, Carl Smith brought me together. Carl Smith led me to this, connected me to that, showed me this, provided a space for me to learn and grow. And I think that is such a beautiful and wonderful legacy to leave.
And I'm so thrilled that going through the Life Map process was just a small part of that and really thankful that you were so vulnerable and open to sharing that with all of us. And I know that there are so many people out there that have so much they need to let go of and lean into and trust themselves in. So hopefully people listening are just taking a deep exhale and looking at 2023 and saying, this is going to be the year I let go and lean in.
Carl:
Well, and I want to take just a minute to thank both of you. Rob, you've done so much for so many people, putting together your thoughts on operations, the way you run your shop, and doing it in an accessible manner. There are dozens if not hundreds of shops that have watched what you've done, that have learned from you. And also, you're always there. If I say, I know somebody you should talk to and I reach out to you, you're always like, "Yeah, yeah, connect them up. I'm good."
And Traci, both you and Tom, and what you've done with the community and our mental health, and allowing us to see how we work together as teams, both through the sessions that you've done and also just through being available to people to talk, I have no doubt you have avoided really train wrecks for folks because they were able to reassess the way that they worked and the team they worked with. So on behalf of the Bureau of Community, thanks to both of you.
Traci:
Yeah. Thank you.
Rob:
Welcome. Well, I think that's what we have for today. Carl, thanks for joining us. I appreciate it. Traci, until next time.
Traci:
Until next time. Thank you.
Rob:
All right.
Announcer:
The Overly Human Podcast is brought to you by Navigate the Journey and Sparkbox. For more information on this podcast, or to get in touch with Traci or Rob, go to overlyhuman.com. If you like what you've heard, subscribe and tell your friends to listen. Thanks.
