Knowing When to Quit
You’ve all heard them, the phrases that explain how quitting is a failure or how you’ll never win if you quit. But quitting can be healthy and necessary at certain times—especially since many people quit too late. Join Traci and Rob as they discuss when to walk away and how to really take an overall look at your life when making large decisions.
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Rob:
“Winners never quit and quitters never win.”
This was something that I heard so many times growing up. It's something that I heard so much that actually became ingrained in me. And as a parent now, or when I'm even coaching other people, sometimes I open my mouth and I hear those words come out.
And I think it's a really big part of being a young person in culture. One of the idols from my generation, Michael Jordan once said, “If you quit once it becomes a habit, never quit.” And as a young person, I just took that in and believed it because one of our heroes was saying it.
Now as an adult, I've kind of started to go back and look at these emphatic statements that left no room for the gray, and I really start to analyze that. And usually when things are so it causes me to question them now.
And in the business world, we talk about sunk costs, and that's a cost that has already been incurred and can't be recovered. So how does that imply here? How does that go forward? And we talk about the sunk cost fallacy, which is a psychological barrier that ties people to unsuccessful endeavors simply because they've committed resources to it in the past. What about the saying, "don't throw good money after bad."
How do we rectify all this stuff? And how does this stuff work together? And what are the benefits of letting go of things that no longer serve us? Can walking away be a sign of strength? Maybe quitting is sometimes the harder thing to do than sticking with something. So how do you know when to walk away and how do you get that timing right?
Announcer:
Welcome to the Overly Human Podcast, where we discuss all things human in the workplace. Because it's not just business—it's personal too.
Rob:
Hey, Traci. How are you?
Traci:
Good, thank you. Yes. How are you doing?
Rob:
I'm doing pretty well.
Traci:
This is a big, big topic especially because we know we talk to a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of business owners, but also just a lot of people navigating their ideas, their projects, their careers. And there's been a lot of discussion, especially recently about quitting. And there's a lot of people in the news too that are making some bold decisions.
And it's interesting because even thinking about the Michael Jordan quote, and when I was listening to kind of your intro, I was thinking semantics are everything, but there's something about perseverance versus quitting that is interesting. We do, as leaders want to persevere and we want to build an environment where people who work with us and for us can also persevere.
But there's moments in our life, very, very personal moments where we feel restless or unsatisfied or some sort of angst that we have to examine. Is it time for me to let this go? Is it time for me to move on? Is it time for me to quit? And those are really hard decisions because of everything you said about society's constructs around is quitting failure, is stopping failure, is moving on failure. And then on the other side of it, we have people who quit too much. We have people who make knee-jerk reactions and say, you're not serving me, or, this place isn't making me happy and I'm out of here. And so there's two sides of the spectrum.
And I think what's super interesting, it's really been hard for me to get out of my head this past week, is the Prime Minister of New Zealand, Jacinda Arden, put in her resignation. And it was shocking, right? Because she was actually very admired, young, eager, and I think I was reading some of her quotes, and the end of one of her quotes said, “Sometimes you just know when it's time and it's time.” And quitting on time to us can feel too early. And that's usually a sign if all things line up that when it's right, when it's time to leave and it's the right decision, it's going to feel like it's too early to everybody around you and to yourself.
Rob:
And I think that's exactly right because by the time you realize that the opportunity is passed for the perfect time, it's over. It's already too late. Yeah. I think that's, you do. We see that over and over and over again, especially in the sports world where that timing of that retirement, because the old saying goes, in the sports world, either you retire from the game or the game will retire you.
Traci:
Yeah.
Rob:
And we have so few examples of the greats stepping off the wave at the right time, timing it just well. We can name dozens and dozens of famous athletes over the last dozen years that have mistimed that and stayed too long. And there's a little bit of personal decision in there and finality in that kind of world, but that timing is so hard to get right.
Traci:
And there's danger around it. There's danger to waiting too long—danger to your reputation, danger to not leaving well, because you get so disgruntled, danger to your health, to your wellbeing, to your family life, to your stress level. But there's also danger to leaving too soon. It's that always thinking the grass is greener on the other side, losing opportunity because you're impatient, not learning and growing and developing because you keep moving to a new environment and you're not being challenged. You're not getting consistent feedback.
So I think the trick here is that you have to go through the steps in motions, in the right order and in the right way to examine whether it's time. Is it time? Do I need to give this more time? Is it time for me to move on? And that only comes with taking stock and really asking yourself the right questions.
Traci:
Hi, Overly Human friends. It's Traci. And if you haven't heard, I wrote a book, it's called “What If There's More?: Finding Significance Beyond Success” and it's out right now. If you're thinking about a career pivot, following your dream or just falling back in love with what you do, I think this book is for you. And if you like it, please go and leave me a review. Happy reading.
Rob:
I think it comes asking yourself the right questions and then reevaluating, where you're going, where your vision's taking you, and actually asking yourself and does yesterday's vision and direction still where I'm headed today? And I think that's one of the biggest questions to answer there, because it's really easy to get caught up in the destination.
And one of the things that I know we've talked about a lot here is your in-state, your desired vision for where you want to go is merely a bearing for where you're headed. And of course, if that bearing direction changes significantly, sometimes you have to change your actions because you're no longer headed in the right direction. And that's a really good signal that, hey, maybe something has to change. Maybe all this time I put in here, it's not wasted, but it's done. It has no bearing on where I should go next.
Traci:
Yeah. And I think the path to where you want to go, the picture of where you want to go should include all areas of your life so that you can stay centered. And you know if you have painted a vivid picture of where you want to go and you get off track because you're letting other things direct you, then you're not going to realize that picture that you painted for yourself.
So when I go through this with clients, I have them look at all areas of their life today and then paint the picture of how they want all those areas to look in the future. So then what has to happen in between? And so it's all about priorities and what's important. And I think we started out talking about how sometimes quitting, you can feel like a failure. And sometimes staying, you can feel like a failure too.
So I think about my own experience of leaving at the top of my career. Well, I think Jacinda's decision really hit me hard because it took me back to that place where everybody was telling me I was crazy and everybody was in shock, and people weren't happy. And it made me feel like I started doubting myself, and then I felt like, am I just cashing out? Is there some sort of failure element to the decision that I'm making?
But then I had to look at my life as a whole and realize that if I kept pushing the way I was pushing, I was kind of failing myself, and I was failing my kids, and I was failing that vision I had painted for myself. And I think if we could put our identity in the right place and who we are and what our unique purpose is, and hold onto that, then when we have to let go—even if we know something's failing, the project's, failing as an entrepreneur, or our company's not doing well, and it seems like it's time to move on—if we've put our identity in the right thing and we've painted a picture that's fuller than just our job or our company, our title, then we are able to pivot.
We're able to leave on time because we can say, this is just one thing in my life. I've done it to the best of my ability, and now it's time to move on to something else and try something else and take a leap of faith. So you're right, you have to look into the future in order to know if you're making the right decision on quitting and if it's time to move on.
Rob:
And that's not easy. That's way easier said than done. You've talked about your story quite a bit, knowing when to do that and feeling now in hindsight that it was the right thing, the right time, and all of that. But it's not easy. And knowing those things are going to work out as you walk into it are not a sure thing.
Traci:
Yeah. It's not. And that's why pursuing wisdom and mentors and authentic friendships, people that are going to tell you the truth, and because people all around you are going to just agree with you or going to say, oh, yeah, you're unhappy. Just go. They're just going to pacify you because that's what they think you want to hear.
But you have to have some people in your life that you can go to that are questioning you and pushing you and saying, “Are you sure?” or “What about this?” reframing the situation for you so that you can not make this decision in a vacuum.
So it's a little bit twofold. Yes. You know, have to look internally, you have to weigh this up against who you are and what you want, but then you want to go to those people that you trust. And this is why I think the whole quiet quitting thing bugged me so much is because I just couldn't believe how people are not communicating with each other. Even people being able to go to their bosses or to their supervisor and say, “I feel restless. I feel unsatisfied. Can you help me through this?”
Because it's really, really a tricky situation to kind of decide. And as we talked about the danger of leaving too soon, there are so many people that are like, “Oh, my company's not serving me. I just frustrated.” And why? They don't say anything. They just sit in their frustration and then they leave thinking the grass is greener on the other side, and they get to their new company. And guess what? It's exactly the same. Why? Because the problem's them, the problem's not their company, it's them.
And so we have to have people in our lives, we have to have honesty in our lives to say, “Okay, I am not feeling like this thing is right. Is it me? Is it somebody else? Is it changeable? Can I fix a relationship with my boss? Can I fix the relationship with my coworker? Can I go and ask for a new role? Can I ask to be challenged in a different way? Can I fight for a different workload?” Whatever it is before you walk away because it's always better to stay when you're unhappy in a job if you can fix it because you want some longevity so you can learn and grow.
And now, if all of those things can't be changed, and you've done the hard, hard work, and you've had the conversation and you know, you've realize that you've either outgrown the company or outgrown the role, or you're in a toxic environment and it doesn't match your core values, then yes, make the decision. But what we're talking about here is you've got to do the work to figure out if it's right or wrong, if it's time or not.
Rob:
And one of the things you said, which I think can't be stressed enough, is the whole idea of looking at your entire life, all the aspects, all of the different things, because they're not individual buckets that don't leak into each other. And you have to do the hard work on each of those to know where that unrest and dissatisfaction is coming from. Because so often what I've seen and even felt in some cases was where dissatisfaction or unhappiness from one section of my life leaks into the thing that's seemingly the easiest to change, and that's not the source of it. And if you make a change there, the things that was causing you that dissatisfaction go with you because you haven't addressed it.
So it's almost like an easy out, right? Like “Oh, I can do this, and the grass will be greener.” And one of the things that we talk about a lot is the grass is greener where you water it. It's not on the other side. It's where you take care of it. And how can we do that work and take care of the whole human us in this particular case so that if it's time to walk away, that we're walking into something that is sustainable is better, and we're not taking baggage with us from something that didn't belong in the first place.
Rob:
Well, it's that time again where we thank our sponsor, the Bureau of Digital, a community of digital makers that all get together and share and support each other. And today we have a special treat. Carl, the head of the Bureau is here with us. Hey, Carl.
Carl:
Hey everybody. Thank you for having me be on the show. We don't sponsor any other podcasts, and when I listened to what y'all were doing, I was like, we need to support them. We need to find a way that we can help. So I was like, "Ah, we'll be a sponsor."
Rob:
And we really do appreciate it. And if you have any questions, check out bureauofdigital.com. The 2023 event schedule is up and live, and a big change for this year is if you join and become a member, all of the online events are included—and there's some really good ones. You don't want to miss out. So don't wait. Visit bureauofdigital.com.
Traci:
Yeah. I mean, it's amazing when we think about entrepreneurs and business owners and that whole philosophy of like, to quit is to fail, to quit is to lose. And I've coached so many owners and entrepreneurs where you're right, like the endless pursuit, the holding on white-knuckling it, trying to make it work, how that affects other aspects of their life. Or even not trying to make it work, but just throwing their whole self into something with no boundaries because they just are obsessed and not taking stock of all the other areas of their life, and then they wake up and next thing you know, they're divorced or don't have a relationship with their teenage kids, and we know when they become teenagers, it's a little late if you haven't put the work in yet.
And so there is this danger of really being fearful of quitting, being fearful of letting go, being fearful of setting boundaries around things. Entrepreneurs can easily fall into that, we want our idea to win. And you see this with business partners and founders. Sometimes it's time for the founder to move on because they've scaled the company to this great place, but they don't have the skillset, desire anymore to take it to the next level. You can see in their eyes, they've already are thinking about three other places to go,. And it's really, really an interesting journey to watch people go on.
Rob:
It is. And I think I'll go so far to say that I think entrepreneurs and founders are even more susceptible to some of this stuff than everybody else's because of how much their creation becomes part of their identity. It becomes something they've done and they latch onto it, and they're afraid to let it go because it's who they are. It's what they put their life into.
And I don't know many people who have founded successful businesses that haven't had to almost leave a piece of themself to do that, because there is a giant cost, there is a time commitment. But one of the things that I tell everybody I talk to is, let go of that. The most interesting thing about you isn't that your founder. Isn't that you started this thing. It's the pieces of you that led you to be able to do that, that you take with you, the experiences and wisdom that you go with after that case. Interesting. That's the pieces you get to take with you. Don't ever discount that.
Traci:
Yeah. Identity is everything. I mean, and when you think about even Jacinda, I keep coming back to her because if her identity was in that, in her title. Which she's Prime Minister…I mean, it's pretty, but it's pretty hard not to put your identity in that. And this is what happens to so many politicians, like the accolades and all of those things. It can become this tricky thing, and you can't let go of it because you feel like your whole, the bottom's going to drop out of your identity, and you're not going to know who you are, and it's, you're going to feel naked. And those things are all true if you put your identity in the wrong thing, if you put your identity in your company, if you put your identity in a title, it, that's a scary place to put your identity.
Rob:
It is. And it's something I think we have to recognize both about ourselves and help other people see that we're talking to, right? When they're helping them, when they come to you, it's like, “Hey, how much of this is you? How much of this is what your idea of you is, or what other people think you should do?” Because let's separate those things out. Not that they don't all have weight into the decision somewhat, but let's at least categorize them correctly.
Traci:
Yeah. Exactly. So, wow. Big topics. Yeah.
Rob:
Yeah. It is a big topic.
Traci:
It's nuanced, and it's hard. Yeah. It's hard and it's nuanced, but if you ask yourself the right questions, you can get there and do the hard work.
Rob:
That's always, it's being intentional about it. Right? How many times are we going to say those words about one of these topics, being intentional about it, and you have to do the work to understand who you are, what you want, where you want to be, and then the rest of it kind of works itself out. Then it's just one step after another.
Traci:
Yep.
Rob:
So, well, that's a lot of talk about quitting. Thanks, Traci.
Traci:
Thank you.
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The Overly Human Podcast is brought to you by Navigate the Journey and Sparkbox. For more information on this podcast, or to get in touch with Traci or Rob, go to overlyhuman.com. If you like what you've heard, subscribe and tell your friends to listen. Thanks.
